Tumblr for DW folks, part 1: Reblogs
Jan. 8th, 2019 01:25 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
potofsoup[Jan 25, 2019 Note: I realized the following day that I was writing about reblogs on the wrong register -- I wanted to express what reblogs mean to me, personally, and it came out as something too universal. This is what I should have written here, so I prefer that you read that instead. But I'm keeping this here and unlocking comments for archival purposes.]
muccamukk linked me to a post they made in response to my recent post about reblogs, which made me realize that ... I don't think the DW folks who aren't on tumblr quite understand the way reblogs work on Tumblr. At least, not the social function of it. There was a lot of "why can't these new tumblr people just post a link and a blurb?" and "the way to do it is curated link lists" and "I don't get why they call link sharing reblogs" and "I don't want my content to be reposted!!" in the comments.
To the last point: very fair concern! Especially private or locked posts, or posts otherwise not designed for public consumption! <-- tumblrites: heed this. Not everyone wants their posts quoted, especially ones intended for a private audience. Don't Repost.
But for the other stuff, hey, let's talk about tumblr reblogs for a sec, 'kay?
0) We don't like reposts, either. Reposting removes the work from its original poster and context, or mutates it beyond recognition, and there's a lot of social stigma on tumblr around reposting. Reblogging, however, keeps that context and can be a way to redirect people to the OP's post. That said,duskpeterson makes the point in comments here that when people sign up on tumblr, they are signing up for a public blog and reblogging. When people sign up on DW, they did not sign up for reblogging or reposting. But for the DW folks: tumblr reblogs are not reposts. Oftentimes, they're tumblr's way of sharing links and directing people's attention to worthwhile content. So if you read the word "reblog" and think "people better not be reposting my stuff", I'm actually trying to capture the idea of "sharing links" and "continuing the conversation in a more public space", which are things that people on DW do ALL THE TIME.
1) We all know tumblr reblogs is a horrible way to have a conversation. That's why we tumblr expats are really excited to use the comment features on DW! Seriously, NO ONE liked scrolling past 10 different copies of the same conversation, each subsequent one with slightly less of the convo. Like, THANK GOD DW HAS COMMENT THREADING.
2) "reblogging" is sharing a *discrete* chunk of "thing". Here I'm talking about reblogging as an action of sharing with your followers. And the fact that what you share is a discrete thing is what makes reblogs different from lists of links, in my opinion. On tumblr, if I see a cool image, or an interesting link, or a cool conversation between a historian, a botanist, and an artist about a picture of a plant in a medieval manuscript ... I hit "reblog" to share that chunk of "thing." I show my enthusiasm for the thing by "slamming the reblog button." So when I say "reblog", I mean "share that thing." I know it's weird to DW folk that I call it reblog, but I see it as a slightly different idea. This is why, in most cases, a quick link + blurb serves the same function as a reblog on DW. (One thing that frustrates me about some of the link lists that get shared on DW, is that sometimes they're links to a bunch of *different* discrete things. How am I supposed to isolate the 1 rec of the 5 listed, either to share with others, or to save to my memories in a way that future-me would understand?)
3) However, reblogging can also make new things. When you reblog something and add to the conversation while simultaneously widening the audience for the thing, magic sometimes happens. Other people add to it and suddenly you're not just sharing the original post, you're sharing the interaction between the original post and the subsequent reblog additions/remixes. A new "thing" is created through the reblog process. (And since reblogs spread, the niftiest version of the thing ends up rising to the top). My tumblr got deleted so I can no longer link you to my "tumblr perfection" tag that had all of these moments where tumblr magic happens, but here's at least an example where I reblogged an image, added a ficlet to it, and it became a thing that is more than the sum of its parts. Which is to say -- while I think 80% of the time, I just want to do a quick link share, and 15% of the time, I want to comment on the post, there *is* that 5% of the time where I want to do something *more*. And that something more is to add on to your thing in a way that create a new thing.
Edited to add: I'm beginning to realize that part of the confusion here is that there is a DW social norm that anyone can comment on and jump into any other comment thread in public posts??? Like, I tend to treat comment threads here like I do on AO3, where they tend to be one-on-one conversations between me and the creator. But apparently that's not the case??? I'd love to see an example of that "in the wild", as it were. It feels so *wrong* to me to just go reading other people's comments of posts, which is probably that same wrong feeling DW people have when I use the word "reblog".
4) There are tumblr conventions around reblogging, we're not heathens. Which is my way of saying "trust us to not muck things up."
- People don't usually reblog personal things. I recently read a really thought-provoking post on DW that talked about race and gentrification, but I knew it wasn't written to be shared widely, because the framing of the discussion was just so personal. When I was on tumblr, I would not reblog those sorts of posts either.
- People don't usually add on to the reblog chain unless they feel like they can add substantively to the conversation. There's a convention of keeping the reblog "clean", which is why everyone yells in the tags instead. So if I see a cool post, I'd hit reblog, and put my thoughts about that post in the tags. This means that my followers can see the tags, and the original poster can see my tags, but when my followers then reblogs that post, my tags don't muck up the original post. (That's why there's also the convention where people might "elevate" someone's tags into the reblog chain if they think it's particularly brilliant.)
- Also, back in the days when tumblr allowed editing of reblog chains, what people mostly did was to snip the conversation down to the specific snippet that they were commenting on. I did it all the time with my own posts. Once again, I don't have a proper example due to tumblr shenanigans, but here's a post of mine that got reblogged and had a lot of stuff added to it, which I wish I could snip a bit and then reblog: https://asgardian-goddess-of-writing.tumblr.com/post/177405007687/meleedamage-fasole-dulce-potofsoup . If I could edit reblogs, I would probably cut out some of the middle bits (while keeping the attribution) in order to focus on the whole "Bucky stealing Nat's guns" thing, and then add a follow-up comic of Bucky telling T'Challa "fine! I'll get my own guns!" or something.
So yeah, there are definitely HORRIBLE aspects of reblogging that I PRAY TO DEITIES that we don't do here, like making private conversations public, or editing other people's stuff in a way that disrepects the original post, or just all that repetitive scrolling. And yeah, there are IMPORTANT aspects of DW culture that we need to be mindful of, such as respecting the privacy and integrity of content , and using accessibility-friendly HTML, but also sometimes I want to see a non-sequitor of yours and make a doodle to accompany it and post those together with an "oops my hand slipped", with proper attribution and link-back. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[Edited on Jan 8 2019 at 10am to add point #0]
[Edit on Jan 8 2019 at 10pm: Thanks for everyone's comments -- I'm definitely coming out of it with a better understanding of DW conventions. I'm turning off comments for a while so that I can focus on RL.]
[Edit on Jan 25 2019: all right, RL is done, so unlocking comments here.]
muccamukk linked me to a post they made in response to my recent post about reblogs, which made me realize that ... I don't think the DW folks who aren't on tumblr quite understand the way reblogs work on Tumblr. At least, not the social function of it. There was a lot of "why can't these new tumblr people just post a link and a blurb?" and "the way to do it is curated link lists" and "I don't get why they call link sharing reblogs" and "I don't want my content to be reposted!!" in the comments.To the last point: very fair concern! Especially private or locked posts, or posts otherwise not designed for public consumption! <-- tumblrites: heed this. Not everyone wants their posts quoted, especially ones intended for a private audience. Don't Repost.
But for the other stuff, hey, let's talk about tumblr reblogs for a sec, 'kay?
0) We don't like reposts, either. Reposting removes the work from its original poster and context, or mutates it beyond recognition, and there's a lot of social stigma on tumblr around reposting. Reblogging, however, keeps that context and can be a way to redirect people to the OP's post. That said,
duskpeterson makes the point in comments here that when people sign up on tumblr, they are signing up for a public blog and reblogging. When people sign up on DW, they did not sign up for reblogging or reposting. But for the DW folks: tumblr reblogs are not reposts. Oftentimes, they're tumblr's way of sharing links and directing people's attention to worthwhile content. So if you read the word "reblog" and think "people better not be reposting my stuff", I'm actually trying to capture the idea of "sharing links" and "continuing the conversation in a more public space", which are things that people on DW do ALL THE TIME.1) We all know tumblr reblogs is a horrible way to have a conversation. That's why we tumblr expats are really excited to use the comment features on DW! Seriously, NO ONE liked scrolling past 10 different copies of the same conversation, each subsequent one with slightly less of the convo. Like, THANK GOD DW HAS COMMENT THREADING.
2) "reblogging" is sharing a *discrete* chunk of "thing". Here I'm talking about reblogging as an action of sharing with your followers. And the fact that what you share is a discrete thing is what makes reblogs different from lists of links, in my opinion. On tumblr, if I see a cool image, or an interesting link, or a cool conversation between a historian, a botanist, and an artist about a picture of a plant in a medieval manuscript ... I hit "reblog" to share that chunk of "thing." I show my enthusiasm for the thing by "slamming the reblog button." So when I say "reblog", I mean "share that thing." I know it's weird to DW folk that I call it reblog, but I see it as a slightly different idea. This is why, in most cases, a quick link + blurb serves the same function as a reblog on DW. (One thing that frustrates me about some of the link lists that get shared on DW, is that sometimes they're links to a bunch of *different* discrete things. How am I supposed to isolate the 1 rec of the 5 listed, either to share with others, or to save to my memories in a way that future-me would understand?)
3) However, reblogging can also make new things. When you reblog something and add to the conversation while simultaneously widening the audience for the thing, magic sometimes happens. Other people add to it and suddenly you're not just sharing the original post, you're sharing the interaction between the original post and the subsequent reblog additions/remixes. A new "thing" is created through the reblog process. (And since reblogs spread, the niftiest version of the thing ends up rising to the top). My tumblr got deleted so I can no longer link you to my "tumblr perfection" tag that had all of these moments where tumblr magic happens, but here's at least an example where I reblogged an image, added a ficlet to it, and it became a thing that is more than the sum of its parts. Which is to say -- while I think 80% of the time, I just want to do a quick link share, and 15% of the time, I want to comment on the post, there *is* that 5% of the time where I want to do something *more*. And that something more is to add on to your thing in a way that create a new thing.
Edited to add: I'm beginning to realize that part of the confusion here is that there is a DW social norm that anyone can comment on and jump into any other comment thread in public posts??? Like, I tend to treat comment threads here like I do on AO3, where they tend to be one-on-one conversations between me and the creator. But apparently that's not the case??? I'd love to see an example of that "in the wild", as it were. It feels so *wrong* to me to just go reading other people's comments of posts, which is probably that same wrong feeling DW people have when I use the word "reblog".
4) There are tumblr conventions around reblogging, we're not heathens. Which is my way of saying "trust us to not muck things up."
- People don't usually reblog personal things. I recently read a really thought-provoking post on DW that talked about race and gentrification, but I knew it wasn't written to be shared widely, because the framing of the discussion was just so personal. When I was on tumblr, I would not reblog those sorts of posts either.
- People don't usually add on to the reblog chain unless they feel like they can add substantively to the conversation. There's a convention of keeping the reblog "clean", which is why everyone yells in the tags instead. So if I see a cool post, I'd hit reblog, and put my thoughts about that post in the tags. This means that my followers can see the tags, and the original poster can see my tags, but when my followers then reblogs that post, my tags don't muck up the original post. (That's why there's also the convention where people might "elevate" someone's tags into the reblog chain if they think it's particularly brilliant.)
- Also, back in the days when tumblr allowed editing of reblog chains, what people mostly did was to snip the conversation down to the specific snippet that they were commenting on. I did it all the time with my own posts. Once again, I don't have a proper example due to tumblr shenanigans, but here's a post of mine that got reblogged and had a lot of stuff added to it, which I wish I could snip a bit and then reblog: https://asgardian-goddess-of-writing.tumblr.com/post/177405007687/meleedamage-fasole-dulce-potofsoup . If I could edit reblogs, I would probably cut out some of the middle bits (while keeping the attribution) in order to focus on the whole "Bucky stealing Nat's guns" thing, and then add a follow-up comic of Bucky telling T'Challa "fine! I'll get my own guns!" or something.
So yeah, there are definitely HORRIBLE aspects of reblogging that I PRAY TO DEITIES that we don't do here, like making private conversations public, or editing other people's stuff in a way that disrepects the original post, or just all that repetitive scrolling. And yeah, there are IMPORTANT aspects of DW culture that we need to be mindful of, such as respecting the privacy and integrity of content , and using accessibility-friendly HTML, but also sometimes I want to see a non-sequitor of yours and make a doodle to accompany it and post those together with an "oops my hand slipped", with proper attribution and link-back. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[Edited on Jan 8 2019 at 10am to add point #0]
[Edit on Jan 8 2019 at 10pm: Thanks for everyone's comments -- I'm definitely coming out of it with a better understanding of DW conventions. I'm turning off comments for a while so that I can focus on RL.]
[Edit on Jan 25 2019: all right, RL is done, so unlocking comments here.]
no subject
Date: 2019-01-09 04:01 am (UTC)It ultimately comes down to what people understand as "reblogs", and I think the people who prefer to use the term "reblog" are people who use it to mean "share" or "link". And the people who see "reblog" as an unwanted thing are people who use it to mean "when you copy-paste my entire post without say-so". And in the end, we all like the former and dislike the latter.
That difference is why when you said in another comment that "I'm kind of genuinely baffled as to why you would want to leave a reblog comment at someone's DW," I saw that and thought, "but how else would I know if someone shared my stuff and/or had comments on it?"
I'm currently not willing to give up my use of the term "reblog" to mean "share with my followers", and a lot of other people have made it clear that they want "reblog" to mean a specific type of repost, so once again, that's the confusing hill I'm choosing to die on. (Or rather, see how the language shift plays out over the next few months.)
no subject
Date: 2019-01-09 05:02 am (UTC)There are tumblr conventions around reblogging, we're not heathens. Which is my way of saying "trust us to not muck things up."
I mean. Uh. If I had 50p for every time someone on tumblr reblogged a personal post of mine that I had literally tagged with some variant on 'don't reblog', I could probably get myself five years of paid DW time. Maybe it was fandom/circle dependent, but there is really, really nothing remotely approaching privacy norms on tumblr (there is hardly privacy etiquette). 'Reblog' is going to have to mean something entirely different here — something with attention to privacy norms baked in — and at that point what is ... the point of using it?