potofsoup: (Default)
[personal profile] potofsoup
I added a bit to my "DW for tumblrites" post about reblogs as I see formatting and other social norms establish themselves over the past week or two. Here's some of what I added:

[Framing the concept of "reblogging"]
Before we get into the meat of "alternatives to reblogging," I want to point out that DW has a culture that is centered around privacy and control of content, so be very mindful that most people are writing things here *not* intended for tumblr-style reblogging, and in fact, many posts are designed to be protected, not shared.

That said, reblogging is a core way people interact on tumblr, so let's start by figure out *why* our fingers itch to hit the "reblog" button:

To save something so you can find it later:
Use Memories and tag it. (See above)

To add to the conversation:
- Click "Reply", and type up a quick comment! DW automatically emails you if someone responds to your comment, and you can actually reply to that email to automatically add to the comment thread. (I love comment threading so much)
- It's *totally okay* to comment on other people's comment threads! If you see an interesting comment, you can add on to it, the way if you see an interesting post, you'd reblog and add on to it.
- If there's already a large number of comments on that post, I suggest middle-clicking on that post to open it up in a new tab and read through existing comment threads.

To share a cool thing with your followers:
Pop a link into a blank post, write a quick blurb, and post it. That link could be to a post, an external page that someone shared, or to a specific comment thread or tag. The key here, for me, is that it's (a) fast, and (b) short.

Format would be: [user] made [a post about blah].

Here's how the html would look:
<user name="USERNAME"> made <a href="POST LINK">a post about blah</a>.

To add to a conversation AND share it at the same time
On tumblr, the solution is to reblog and add to the bottom. This leads to a lot of Dash filler if it's an active conversation. On DW, I think we're fortunate in that there's more of a choice:
- You can comment on a post and then post a link to that comment thread.
- You can link to the original post and write your response on your own blog, and then share a link to your post in the comments of the original post.

I think I prefer linking to a comment thread if I want to be part of the same conversation. But if it's something that is a few steps removed from the original post, and also something that I want to start my own conversation on my own blog, I'd use the latter.

Formatting "reblogs"
For about 90% of the time, I think a quick "[user] made a post about blah: [link]" is sufficient. However, sometimes you may want to include a snippet of someone's post in your reblog post -- maybe to highlight a particular point that you want to point people to.
[personal profile] shy_magpie suggested a way of formatting reblogs, which is basically putting the quoted snippet in a <blockquote> tag.

Here is an example of what it looks like:

[personal profile] potofsoup, in her Likes and Reblogs post, said:
blah di blah blah blah
(note: blockquotes show up differently on different styles, so don't rely on it always looking the same)

Be mindful that many people don't want their posts quoted, especially ones intended for a private audience. So before including a snippet, consider a few things:
- Is the post private? (there's a little lock icon next to the title of the post) If so, don't share any part of it
- Is the content of the post personal? If so, it's probably not intended for a wider audience.
- Are you still directing people to the original post and the comment threads there?
- Is your snippet short enough to count as "fair use", or can it be seen as you're stealing other people's content wholesale and reposting? (Even if you provide a link back, it's still reposting.)
- Instead of quoting a snippet and adding on, can the same thing be achieved by linking to the comment thread with a short blurb about what you said?

I'm a tumblr-ite so you have blanket permission for me, but when in doubt, double-check!!

Reblog starter snippet
You can help facilitate link-share style "reblogs" by providing some pre-formatted text snippet for people to copy-paste into their post. Anything enclosed in a creating a <textarea> like above is raw code, which people can then copy-paste into their post and then edit/append their own blurb.
  • Here's the formatting again: <user name="USERNAME"> made <a href="POST LINK">a post about blah</a>
  • It feels weird to pre-include the post snippet that you want people to reblog, so... maybe not?
  • I'm currently undecided about images. On the one hand, I want more images on my dash/reading page. On the other hand, it's basically reposting my work.
  • Keep in mind that these "reblogs" *are* editable, so we're dependent on social norms to make sure things aren't mis-attributed.

    If your reblogger want to help facilitate the spread of your post, they can simply paste the reblog snippet a second time and put it inside another <textarea> </textarea>.

    Notifying and tagging reblogs
    One thing that's I miss is knowing that someone reblogged my stuff. What I've been doing is leaving a comment on the person's post that I'm reblogging it, and linking to the reblogged post if possible.

    [edit 1: I was wondering why [personal profile] shy_magpie wanted to use dd and dt tags instead of blockquotes, and it turned out they didn't know about blockquotes! so I changed it to be blockquotes instead, and changed the link to their new post about it.]
    [edit 2: edited the original post better highlight respect for privacy and existing comment norms, and copy-pasted the changes here.]

    Reblog starter snippet:


    [Edit: Thanks for everyone's comments! I need to focus on RL and other projects, so I'll be ignoring comments on this post for a while. Thanks for understanding!]
  • Date: 2019-01-07 08:17 am (UTC)
    shy_magpie: A Magpie (Default)
    From: [personal profile] shy_magpie
    I really appreciate the nuance you've added to this guide, like when and how to use this effectively! As you say linking usually makes the most sense, but I like it for cases like when someone else is pointing you at the post where the conversation is. You want to credit the person who brought it to your attention, and keep their reasons for pointing you to the main post, but don't want people to have to go through three layers to get to the main post.

    Date: 2019-01-07 08:34 am (UTC)
    shy_magpie: A Magpie (Default)
    From: [personal profile] shy_magpie
    reblogged here

    Date: 2019-01-08 08:16 pm (UTC)
    shy_magpie: A Magpie (Default)
    From: [personal profile] shy_magpie
    I would get permission then link to the reblog but if I had a handle on this we wouldn't be in this position.

    Date: 2019-01-07 03:28 pm (UTC)
    From: [personal profile] nachodiablo
    <3

    Date: 2019-01-07 06:24 pm (UTC)
    From: [personal profile] loptmeer
    This is beyond cool! I was seeing you do this a lot recently and instantly amazed! :'O

    Can't wait to try this out later, lmao, probably on this post in particular! Haha

    Date: 2019-01-07 07:10 pm (UTC)
    alchemistdoctor: A pigeon sitting on my leg. He's giving you a look that says "give me the food or I will shit on you." (Default)
    From: [personal profile] alchemistdoctor
    Linked here.

    Date: 2019-01-07 11:57 pm (UTC)
    norsellie: (Default)
    From: [personal profile] norsellie
    A++ Yes. Good. ♥

    Date: 2019-01-08 12:49 am (UTC)
    kawherp: (Default)
    From: [personal profile] kawherp
    Your how to guides have been a life line!

    Date: 2019-01-08 01:38 am (UTC)
    silveradept: A kodama with a trombone. The trombone is playing music, even though it is held in a rest position (Default)
    From: [personal profile] silveradept
    I personally like the <blockquote> tag rather than the dl-dt-dd combination, because it'll be better for accessibilty and screen readers and seems like a better description, but I know that different styles and browsers handle blockquote formatting differently.

    Date: 2019-01-08 07:52 pm (UTC)
    silveradept: A kodama with a trombone. The trombone is playing music, even though it is held in a rest position (Default)
    From: [personal profile] silveradept
    Yeah. There's the spec, and then there's how people visualize the stored because of built in browser styles, and then they're are the additional styles added on top of those, and then there's the point where we look at the spec and go "bzuh?"

    Thank you for responding.

    Date: 2019-01-08 05:07 am (UTC)
    muccamukk: text 'Writers expressed themselves with cymbals' with a picture of a set of cymbals (Books: Writing)
    From: [personal profile] muccamukk
    I don't know if you've seen the discussion of this over at the great tumblr purge comm, but there's a lot in comments about both accessibility and clash with existing DW users on this point.

    https://the-great-tumblr-purge.dreamwidth.org/77386.html

    ETA: I don't want to be in here jumping up and down at new ideas from tumblr, old woman yells at clouds style, but reblogging large sections of text from DW users without permission will probably get you banned by those users. Just a link and maaaaybe a short quote, fine. Whole sections of posts, very against the culture here.

    ETA: I've done a post about this: https://muccamukk.dreamwidth.org/1183402.html
    Edited Date: 2019-01-08 05:28 am (UTC)

    Date: 2019-01-08 03:30 pm (UTC)
    muccamukk: An orange life ring floating in the sea. (Misc: Lifering)
    From: [personal profile] muccamukk
    Hey. I think the terminology of reblogging it really putting people's backs up. We do understand how tumblr works, actually, and that's why it's so alarming to us. Content here is meant to stay where it's originally posted. I get that you're trying to make it more comprehensible to tumblr users, but I feel like you're calling an apple an orange in this case and it's causing upset and confusion. Just call it a link or a notif or something.

    If you just mean "I could post a link!" that's one thing, but please note how really, really ANGRY the long-term users of the site are at the concept of having content reposted.

    I genuinely appreciate all the work you're putting in to make this site more friendly and more usable, but I think this one thing is going to cause conflict, and there doesn't need to be conflict.
    Edited (I need more coffee because I can spell.) Date: 2019-01-08 03:33 pm (UTC)

    Date: 2019-01-08 06:39 pm (UTC)
    sheron: RAF bi-plane doodle (Johns) (Default)
    From: [personal profile] sheron
    Hi, sorry for butting in on this thread, just wanted to clarify my point since you've likely seen me comment on Mucca's post.

    The main issue about privacy is with this point in your original post:

    "However, sometimes you may want to include a snippet of someone's post in your reblog post -- maybe to highlight a particular point"

    which on DW just isn't done without permission, ever. You don't even mention that a post *exists* unless the OP gave you permission to talk about it outside of the lock (that is, if the post is not public).

    Date: 2019-01-08 08:04 pm (UTC)
    sheron: RAF bi-plane doodle (Johns) (Default)
    From: [personal profile] sheron
    This answer likely won't feel satisfying but: it depends.

    DW is really about you as a person engaging with fandom. Your blog is how you want it. Some people will never want anything reposted/reblogged but others will be fine with it. The only way to know is to find out from the person.

    I could see Tumblr culture shifting this idea, but I would expect a lot of resistance from the "old guard" to changing the social norms they've been using for a few decades.

    Of course, people will discuss any public posts all they like in their own space. But reposting content is a different beast.

    Currently, basically, to figure it out you interact with the person and ask or read it on their posts/profile. Yeah, pretty much every single user. It is what makes DW different from Tumblr (and appealing to people who are using it, rather than being a minus). You need to engage with the person to find out what they want.

    Date: 2019-01-08 08:48 pm (UTC)
    sheron: RAF bi-plane doodle (Johns) (Default)
    From: [personal profile] sheron
    Oh absolutely. There's a lot of...clunk in the technology which was basically conceived in the year 2000, as LJ was.

    I definitely understand the benefits Tumblr offers (I've started to begrudgingly use it about 4 years ago and it's grown on me...like a fungus...) and I would love to figure out ways to make DW onboard the good parts somehow.

    But there are things that DW is just better at, and the userbase is going to feel very protective of them. For example, granular privacy levels is one of those things people either don't care about or feel strongly about, I think.

    Date: 2019-01-08 05:21 am (UTC)
    lou2: FacePalm (Sokka-Facepalm)
    From: [personal profile] lou2
    I've been here for about 10 years now and I know next to nothing about all the cool things you've been posting.

    It's such an awesome thing for you to do, so I'd like to just give you my thanks. And if I ever get ambitious enough, with enough time to get more involved, I will definitely be back to look at all the hard work you put into making it easier to use DW.

    Thanks again! <3

    Date: 2019-01-08 06:00 am (UTC)
    kore: (Default)
    From: [personal profile] kore
    I'm an old school Dreamwidth type and likely to come off as a Cranky Old Fandom Queen, but this is a really terrible idea. It goes against a lot of Dreamwidth standards: community, comment culture, accessibility, good coding, other things....I'm kind of genuinely baffled as to why you would want to leave a reblog comment at someone's DW. It sounds to me like people who want reblog culture and are impatient than Pillowfort isn't open are trying to implement it at DW. DW is not about reblogging the way Tumblr was. What you're doing is not an improvement, and it's not desired by a lot of people.

    Date: 2019-01-08 09:27 am (UTC)
    shy_magpie: A Magpie (Default)
    From: [personal profile] shy_magpie
    Please see my post on blockquote that tag works better than DTs.

    Date: 2019-01-08 10:46 am (UTC)
    shy_magpie: A Magpie (Default)
    From: [personal profile] shy_magpie
    It really helps to know these things exist! I have such weird gaps in my knowledge, I can use SASS pretty well but trying to learn flexbox makes me scream! Once I know what I am looking for I can do okay finding it on W3schools or the Mozilla MDN, but so many things people take for granted are new to me.

    Date: 2019-01-08 10:59 am (UTC)
    shy_magpie: A Magpie (Default)
    From: [personal profile] shy_magpie
    Thanks, you didn't do anything wrong, I got brain weasels so I might have be a bit bitey when I feel criticized but that's on me.

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