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Random, extremely belated Cap 3 thoughts
Sep. 14th, 2020 12:04 amMy school's Marvel Club started a discord, where the kiddos would post occasional discussion questions, which is totally adorable! I'm trying not to fandom everywhere, but instead be a Very Respectable Teacher Advisor. Anyway, one question was "If you could go back and retcon or just generally change one thing from the MCU what would it be and why?" and I got a little carried away, so I'm posting my answer here, as well, especially since it helped me articulate some of my frustrations with Civil War.
I would make Tony's characterization in the post-IM3 movies more consistent to the character strides that Tony made in IM3 re: his anxieties and how he finds his self worth. I would also remove Iron Man from the third Captain America movie.
Iron Man had a nice arc in its trilogy about Tony eventually trusting himself and being genuine to himself and to his friends and loved ones. Captain America had an interesting arc in its first 2 movies about what is worth fighting for and what is worth living for, and I was really looking forward to a third movie that tied the arc together and resolved some character issues.
Like, we *know* that Avengers movies don't really have room for character arcs because there's 15 million boxes they have to check re: setting up the next 10 movies and wrapping up a bajillion threads. Everyone gets to say one line before the hour that is dedicated to punching. Which is why the individual movies are where the character arcs are supposed to happen. Except that RDJ/Feige hijacked the Cap3 movie to make it about the Avengers and the larger world stakes instead of the personal stakes of Steve Rogers.
Imagine a Cap3 movie where Zemo still frames Bucky for the UN bombing, and Steve still has to stake his convictions against the world, but this time, it's his convictions about a single person. And this is at a moment where Bucky himself feels the weight of his actions as the Winter Soldier. That, paired with the parallels of Zemo and T'Challa seeking revenge for his family... what is revenge, and what is justice? How do you figure out what's the right thing to do? How do you take responsibility for wrongs that you have committed? And do you choose the needs of the world for a Captain America, or the needs of Steve to finally stop being a soldier and come home? Those themes are in Civil War, sure, but it's all second fiddle to the "team cap" "team iron man" stuff. So much of Civil War is spent picking sides, recruiting unnecessary characters (Ant-Man, Spiderman, etc), and then having the whole Siberian base red herring with Tony. The movie's Civil War framing made it hard to actually explore Steve as a character, which should have been the point of a Cap movie.
Avengers level movies always end up picking the most generic form of a character -- Tony is a billionaire playboy genius who is underappreciated and always right. Steve is an ornery octogenarian who cares too much about doing what's right. Thor drinks beer and never does anything to show why he would be worthy of mjolnir, etc etc. The characters are always in service to the plot, and in service to "audience reaction." For example, initial audiences came out of Civil War too pro-Steve, and also shipping Steve/Bucky too much, so they added a kiss between Steve and Sharon that also does disservice to Sharon's character, and tweaked stuff until test audiences came out half-and-half. Similarly, Steve's ending in Endgame was apparently also repeatedly tweaked. Like, this is the studio changing main characterization beats based on the needs of the plot to generate the kind of audience reaction that allows them to achieve revenue goals.
Fine, I can accept that AoU, Civil War, and IW/Endgame regressed the character arc that Tony achieved through the Iron Man trilogy, even though it kind of sucks that there are more movies where Tony is the main character and where he *doesn't* resolve any of his issues, BUT at least IM3 exists as a way that provides that character resolution. Steve Rogers really doesn't have that. He never gets to truly come home, because all the movies where he should have been able to, he's been shuttled around for the sake of some larger MCU plot needs and not given a chance to really grapple with his personal issues. Civil War does a disservice to both Tony and Steve's characterizations, and I remain pissed that that's what happened to the third Captain America movie. I'm supposed to walk out of a Captain America movie with feelings about Steve Rogers -- his struggles and his convictions, and *not* some manufactured animosity toward half the Avengers.
Thankfully fanfic exists and I can just have Steve tell Tony that Bucky killed Tony's parents as the Winter Soldier, like, 2 days after the events of CATWS and not 2 years later. It's more consistent with Steve's characterization (why would he hide information, and he always goes headfirst into things), and with Tony's (he would have found the information and he hates not knowing something).
I would make Tony's characterization in the post-IM3 movies more consistent to the character strides that Tony made in IM3 re: his anxieties and how he finds his self worth. I would also remove Iron Man from the third Captain America movie.
Iron Man had a nice arc in its trilogy about Tony eventually trusting himself and being genuine to himself and to his friends and loved ones. Captain America had an interesting arc in its first 2 movies about what is worth fighting for and what is worth living for, and I was really looking forward to a third movie that tied the arc together and resolved some character issues.
Like, we *know* that Avengers movies don't really have room for character arcs because there's 15 million boxes they have to check re: setting up the next 10 movies and wrapping up a bajillion threads. Everyone gets to say one line before the hour that is dedicated to punching. Which is why the individual movies are where the character arcs are supposed to happen. Except that RDJ/Feige hijacked the Cap3 movie to make it about the Avengers and the larger world stakes instead of the personal stakes of Steve Rogers.
Imagine a Cap3 movie where Zemo still frames Bucky for the UN bombing, and Steve still has to stake his convictions against the world, but this time, it's his convictions about a single person. And this is at a moment where Bucky himself feels the weight of his actions as the Winter Soldier. That, paired with the parallels of Zemo and T'Challa seeking revenge for his family... what is revenge, and what is justice? How do you figure out what's the right thing to do? How do you take responsibility for wrongs that you have committed? And do you choose the needs of the world for a Captain America, or the needs of Steve to finally stop being a soldier and come home? Those themes are in Civil War, sure, but it's all second fiddle to the "team cap" "team iron man" stuff. So much of Civil War is spent picking sides, recruiting unnecessary characters (Ant-Man, Spiderman, etc), and then having the whole Siberian base red herring with Tony. The movie's Civil War framing made it hard to actually explore Steve as a character, which should have been the point of a Cap movie.
Avengers level movies always end up picking the most generic form of a character -- Tony is a billionaire playboy genius who is underappreciated and always right. Steve is an ornery octogenarian who cares too much about doing what's right. Thor drinks beer and never does anything to show why he would be worthy of mjolnir, etc etc. The characters are always in service to the plot, and in service to "audience reaction." For example, initial audiences came out of Civil War too pro-Steve, and also shipping Steve/Bucky too much, so they added a kiss between Steve and Sharon that also does disservice to Sharon's character, and tweaked stuff until test audiences came out half-and-half. Similarly, Steve's ending in Endgame was apparently also repeatedly tweaked. Like, this is the studio changing main characterization beats based on the needs of the plot to generate the kind of audience reaction that allows them to achieve revenue goals.
Fine, I can accept that AoU, Civil War, and IW/Endgame regressed the character arc that Tony achieved through the Iron Man trilogy, even though it kind of sucks that there are more movies where Tony is the main character and where he *doesn't* resolve any of his issues, BUT at least IM3 exists as a way that provides that character resolution. Steve Rogers really doesn't have that. He never gets to truly come home, because all the movies where he should have been able to, he's been shuttled around for the sake of some larger MCU plot needs and not given a chance to really grapple with his personal issues. Civil War does a disservice to both Tony and Steve's characterizations, and I remain pissed that that's what happened to the third Captain America movie. I'm supposed to walk out of a Captain America movie with feelings about Steve Rogers -- his struggles and his convictions, and *not* some manufactured animosity toward half the Avengers.
Thankfully fanfic exists and I can just have Steve tell Tony that Bucky killed Tony's parents as the Winter Soldier, like, 2 days after the events of CATWS and not 2 years later. It's more consistent with Steve's characterization (why would he hide information, and he always goes headfirst into things), and with Tony's (he would have found the information and he hates not knowing something).
